Interviewer an scriever: Elisabeth Flett

In yir ain wirds, whit’s Through the Shortbread Tin aw aboot?

There's goin tae be a couple o words because it's no easy to describe! Through the Shortbread Tin is the story - multiple stories, actually - but it’s the story of James Macpherson, who created fragments of ancient poetry and wider books about Ossian and other books that he published, which really put Scotland on the map in the 1700s. But as some people might know, he was later kind of dismissed as a hoax, that it wasn't true, that he made it up. So this show uses that as a starting point, really, to tell that story, because a lot of people don't know that story, but to also use that as a jumping off point to explore other aspects of Scottish culture, Scottish myth, Scottish writing, identity, and who we are in the world. And alongside that I tell a modern story as well, of a young Scot trying to find his place in his culture. That's the strapline! 

Whit was it aboot James Macpherson in particular that made ye think aye, this is the crux o whit ah want tae talk aboot?

 Well, I'd known about Ossian for a while. People had brought it to my attention so I knew it was something I wanted to look at because I'd been doin work in Scots, an work in Gaelic, and that had come up a couple of times. So, I just wanted to use this opportunity. I got some funding to do this, so I used this opportunity really just to delve right into this story. And to be honest it was the hoax that drew me in, definitely. This mad hoax, the greatest literary hoax of all time, right? So it was really compelling. It really drew me in. I'd never heard of it. Loads of people hadn't heard of it. I knew that it was a kind of unknown story. But the mair an mair ah get intae it -  it wasn't the hoax, the hoax became the least interesting part of it. The maist interesting thing became why James wanted to do it in the first place, how did he put it together? It was more than just stealing things, you know, it was more than just copying. So there's a whole kind of background there, lots of reasons why he wanted to do it, and I just thought it was a totally fascinating story. One of the first images I had reading his biography and lots of books about him was the Battle of Culloden was, like, right there. He saw it happen. And so I loved this idea. It's a wee bit fictionalised - you know, I'm taking a lot of license - but this idea that he grew up on myths and legends of Scotland, saw a very real defeat in front of his eyes, and then mebbe set aboot tae try and challenge that in some way and give Scotland a voice again. I mean, it's kind of the stuff that dreams are made of really when ye come tae find a new idea and write a new show. There's loads and loads in there [tae use] so I was really compelled by his story. 

Reclamation o Scottish culture is sic in the zeitgeist at the moment as weel.

There’s always been zeitgeists, right? I think I've had a few zeitgeists in my lifetime! But no, it did feel like it really chimed in with what… Well, it chimed in wi what I was going through the time. I was starting to learn Gaelic. I was startin tae unnerstaun a lot mair aboot Scots, which I never, in my own admission…ah didn’t know anything about, honestly didn't know it was a language, right? Ah wis learning this very very, very late in life. I had been writing stuff in what I thought was Glaswegian, what I thought was vernacular, using all these other words. You know, and it was only aince ah I started daein that, [realisin it wis a real Leid] ah started to read about it and research it more. Just realising how it is a language and the arguments for and against it, and how polarised that is, so I was definitely in a place where this story of James Macpherson really really ran true to me. But politically…when did I come across this? It was about ten years ago, so you know, politically things were still pretty, you know… ‘Scotland’, the word was just a hot potato, do you know what I mean? Just to be Scottish at that time was like a political act in itsel. So trying to reclaim anything feels like a bit of an act, doesn't it? So the idea of James reclaiming somethin, the fact that this show might try and reclaim somethin, the fact that I could write a modern story of somebody trying to reclaim somethin. It felt really really prevalent and really present. 

Ah think ye can definitely see that in the show. Ye are haein those conversations wi yoursel, and wi us in turn. 

Well, there's a lot of talking to the audience. There’s a lot of questions in this show. “What's the point in this? What's the point in that? Do you know about James Macpherson? Can ye imagine that? Whit would ye dae if ye were told this?” So there's loads and loads of questions and provocations to the audience, more than anything I've ever written before. I was just trying to make space for the audience to consider a lot of these things as well. So it wasn't just my opinion, it's no just my point of view, it's no my ‘political angle’ or whatever. I was just trying to make a space where it was like, well, “what do you think about this? Can you imagine how it may be different or can you imagine how that might have come about?” Not even thinking about political stuff or party political stuff or constitutional stuff. But the whole first part of the show was like, “why are we even in this situation in the first place? Who are we as Scots in the first place? Why are we who we are?” So it's more of that, it’s more to question those things rather than to, like, dictate what someone should believe. 

That leads me ontae ma next question awfy nicely, actually! The show plays wi ideas o emotional an factual truth aroond Scottish identity. Has scrievin it changed yir ain unnerstaundin o yir ain ‘Scottishness’?

Yeah, definitely. Ah'm just gonnae quickly talk aboot somethin that happened recently, where we did an excerpt of this show fir the reopening of Scottish Parliament. We had some young people performing in it. And it caused a bit of backlash, because some Reform and some Conservative MSPs took offence at what we were saying. And the reason why ah’m mentioning that is because there is a kind of mythologisin aboot the country. There's definitely a…there's history, then there's like opinion, right? Or there's facts and opinion and these things sit really really closely together, because someone actually can just take to social media and say “no, it didn't happen like that. Scottish history isnae that. The British Empire wasn't racist.” Any of these things, or plantations, and all these things I talk about in the show. People can really forget what history is, or what fact is, and actually just really push an agenda or push their opinion. Now, I'm also guilty of that! Like, in this show, I'm also kind of pushing an agenda, right? A wee bit, anyway. So there is something about the mythologising of the country, the mythologising of our history. How it can actually be dismissed. “No, it wasn't that, it was this” or “let's just make a new version” or “let's do some revisionist history” or “let's have some recency bias”. All of these things come into play when you're talking about your history. So this idea of a myth is a really powerful device to look at your country, how we make myths about ourselves, how we think we are culturally unique- an I also agree with that! [Lauchs] It’s messy, right? It's about how we like to paint ourselves in the world. Are we the Tartan Army that are really like, you know, pure lovely people, the friendly people that go all around the world and make friends? Or are we like the tough guy that would totally, you know, knock the heid aff ye as soon as you offend us? Are we a warrior race or are we pacifists? You know, more pacifist than the rest of the countries in the United Kingdom or whatever, right? There's just all of these like things that are just constantly read about who we are as Scots. And I think using myth tae explore that is is really interesting. So for mysel, it was like, learning about not being on the nose about it, not telling people what to think about it. I learned a lot in exploring this story about Scottish history that I say in the show that I was never taught about, so I learned stuff. I learned historical facts and things that were a bit of an eye opener to me.

An ye point oot in the show that the no learnin o it aw is like a deliberate hing. It wis done deliberately by the folk in charge o the country. 

There's a line in Shortbread that says “imagine if you were told that your history wasn't good enough, and it was replaced by a better one.” So. In the introduction to The History of Scotland by T. M. Devine, he says that’s exactly what happened. As soon as Scotland an England united, it was like, one history is better than another. It became, like, a hierarchy of history. One was more worthy of learning than the other. And I think that's changed  - now my son is in second year and he's getting a lot of Scottish history stuff. He's learning about Kenneth MacAlpin and very early kings and queens of Scotland that I never, ever knew about. So you’re right, in the show that's definitely upfront and centre. Our history, what we've been taught, what we haven't been taught. 

Sae in terms o leid - leid is a big role in whit ye are daein wi the show. Ye hae a lot o Scots, an Gaelic, an there’s SSE [Scottish Standard English] in there tae. There’s a mix o the three. Whit led ye tae haein languages as sic a big pairt o the show?

 I've been doing a couple of shows wi Scots an Gaelic, an English. But, you know, I really wanted to make a place where lots of languages can just exist in the one place. and they're kind of side by side. And I know that sounds dead simple, and I've done one man performances where I jump from one to the other myself, this one was a wee bit different because they had the songs in Gaelic, but it, for me… I just want a place where there - and again, talking about hierarchy - where there's no hierarchy of language, where it doesn't have to go through translation, where you don't have to speak in one to understand the other one. So it's it's really that, it's really given us space for the languages to exist together. But it's also… I suppose for me, I grew up in Glasgow and went to drama school and kind of changed my accent completely so now when I speak I'm speaking in that mad hybrid of, you know, I don't know what my voice is anymore. My accent's totally messed up. So being able to do a show where you can perform in Scots is really, really good for me because you can just be immersed in that language, and I can just speak in that language, and a lot of people have said, “oh, I thought the show was going to be in Scots, but it wasn't really in Scots, was it?” Which is really interesting. It’s interesting because a lot of people then expect it to be in Burns Scots or Doric or something. They think Scots is Burns or something like that. So yeah, someone said to me, “It wasn't really in Scots, was it? It was just in your everyday kind of way of speaking.”

Weel, there ye go! Ye want tae say, like, “Ye are sae close tae gettin it, jist keep going!” [Lauchter]

Aye -  just keep thinking, you're almost there! [Lauchter]  So that is something I've been kind of dealing with a lot is what my Scots is and what I have got to offer in terms of Scots. And the Gaelic is something I've been learning for a long time, something I've been putting work intae for a long time. I just knew and I can't really explain it, but I knew from day one that I wanted to have Gaelic song in this. It felt like it was part of the epic aesthetic of what it was I was reading, what I was explorin. I knew that I wanted it to be kind of just… it’s not off to the sides, it's very central, but just in terms of my character… the Gaelic is there, it's kind of just out of reach. He doesn't speak Gaelic until the very end. And it's the songs of old that's in the book, the voices of old that are being represented by this Gaelic song. So yeah, I always knew I wanted to have them all together. I mean, I feel like every show I make now always wants Scots and Gaelic together. I want them all the time and I also want singers all the time as well! I just want tae hae a background o singers singin every time I do something! [Lauchter] But yeah, just thinking about the story that I was telling…it's about language and it's a very ‘texty’ piece, and I think even though I'm not saying it on the nose, it is a kind of celebration of languages, of the way that we speak. 

Aye, an the show has sic a joyous ending. 

It’s reclaiming again, isn't it? We keep sayin this word reclaiming and I think it’s another reclaiming of…not the stereotypes, it's not about that. It’s about, you know…what we were told was a stereotype, it's a reclaiming of what it is that we have. The song, the language, the words, the story, speaking the way we speak because that's the way we speak and that's aw right. 

Whit dae ye hope folk will tak away frae the show?

Well, I think it just comes back to the question thing. I just want people to have that space to consider it for themselves. They don't need to prescribe to Gaelic and Scots if that's not who they are. They may have their ain other nationality or language or family history or something that's connected to it, so I hope it's universal enough for people just to think of what their ain version of that might be. But then maybe to go away and just think, you know…imagine you could do this, imagine if this happened? I want them to go away and imagine that. I want them to go away and question why didn't they know about James Macpherson, if they didn't know about it? What other aspects of Scottish history has been hidden or kept or not taught? Even the bit in the show where we go back to Culloden again, to talk about what happened after Culloden and what happened to the Highlands and what happened to the fact that then Scots went off into other countries because they were then, like, brought into the British Army. And then what does that mean for who we are as Scottish people? All that section to me is really a bit of a provocation, a bit of a question to say, “who are we? What is this? Where are we going? Where have we been? Why are we in this situation? Why has this happened to us? Why has this history made us the way we are? And why haven't we ever really examined that as a culture yet, as a country?”

Hae ye haud ony interestin conversations wi folk aboot these themes?

The feedback has been amazing. Loads of great feedback. I've had loads of random emails, honestly, so many emails, so many nice things through social media. So many people get in touch saying, “I'm not from here, but I've come here. I've learned a lot.” People from Ukraine, people from the north of England, people from Australia, people from America, people from Ireland. Loads of people are just kind of talking about their own version of that. Or they're talking about being in Scotland and feeling like they're sort of Scottish but they're not really Scottish and they're trying to also get to grips wi that. I think hearin it from a Scot as well, I think  - well that's what people have said to me is, like… it’s a Scottish person grapplin with their ain culture. It makes them look at it as well and say, well, we can also ask questions about it. Also really, really great feedback from men. There's a line in this show which is about men, and it’s about masculinity and how the character can't connect with his grandfather and all of that. Lots of chat aboot bein a man and what a man is. So loads  - and honestly, loads  - of men have spoken to me afterwards and been really emotional about it, because as men they've not been able to ask these questions or connect with certain things or feel like they can say certain things. So, yeah. We need to help men sort themselves out, is what I’ve realised.

Aye, ah willna argue wi that! Richt, ah hae yin big question left. There’s this image o ye posin which has bin used as the central imagery fir the advertisin and in the show itsel as weel. How did ye come tae that as the main image o the show? Whit wis the idea behind that? 

Well, I mean, it came out of practicality. There was chat about trying to do something traditional and modern at the same time. So we did have a lot of chat about that - how can we use the old image of an old Highlander or warrior or Scots person, something that also brings in the contemporary part as well? But on the day I wasn’t as interested in the contemporary part. It’s me, you know, so that looks contemporary enough. We’re resetting this, you know, so it already is a contemporary kind of reconstruction. But there was an image, it was from an exhibition of the National Galleries. Portrait of William Gordon by Pompeo Batoni (1766) and he looks like whit I look like at the beginning of the show.

And it’s because that would be a thing that people would do in those days, they would go on their European trip and go to Rome and go to Paris and all these places or they would go to Athens. So they go to all these great places of historical importance. 

Wis it the Grand Tour, aye? 

Yes, you would go on your Grand Tour. These Scots would take their Highland gear, even though they probably had no connection to the Highlands, and they would be photographed or be painted in front of a Greek or Roman backdrop. You’d wear your Highland gear a wee bit like a toga. So it was a real, like, meshin of these cultures and worlds. And again, this is post-James Macpherson. Scotland, you know, was still… Highlands were this like, beautiful, romantic kind of visions. So there’s this brilliant painting of that and I wanted just to recreate that, really. I wanted to be that person that was all dressed up in their culture and trying to attain another culture as well. That was the image. And so working with the design team, I knew really clearly that the start of the show should also be that. It felt like right that that should be the first thing that you see. All dolled up there in all my gear and within the first minute of the show it just comes off. The stereotypical images kind of get moved to the side of the stage, all that paraphernalia comes off and I'm talking as mysel, a wee bit more contemporary or a wee bit more day-to-day. And that's really, really deliberate, it was about stripping that away. I mean, it's still hard because it’s dodgy territory, isn't it, tae dress up like that? It's almost like I'm cosplaying because I'm not that, I'm not a Highlander. That look isn't really me.

Aye, weel, but it’s aw sae fake. I thought it was quite interestin tae hae ye leuikin like that considerin the themes of the show, like, that concept o tartanism. And that hale kind of idea of ‘clan tartan’ is like, sic a pairt o the fake Scottishness nowadays an maist people dinnae ken only mair that it was jist Victorian an they think that it's real. Sae ah thought that it wis an interestin tie-in wi yir larger themes o whit is real, whit is fake, whit is Scottish? 

Absolutely. You know, we’ve got the onstage stag, in in the earlier version of it when we did it last year we had a massive piece of shortbread too, we had a few more stereotypes on stage to play with. But again it was really like, here's an image. Let's strip it back. Let's explore why that is and at the end, let's bring all back on and see what we feel about it. You know, that's really the journey of the piece and that's really the journey of that aesthetic. But I can also totally understand why people might not be into that as well, you know. I do imagine that if you're from the Highlands, if you do have a connection to that, then it is a wee bit of role play or it is a wee bit of cosplay or something. Still dead interesting to me to have that relationship with it, being a wee bit provocative, being a wee bit cheeky. 

Aye weel, it’s the theme o the show, richt? Tae invite folk tae ask questions?

That’s it. You think you know what you’re getting when you see that flyer or that poster, but again it gets stripped back an what you've got is a wee bald, scruffy Glaswegian talkin aboot himsel instead! [Lauchter]

Jist a quick wee question tae end wi: whit's your favourite Scottish word? 

It’s a phrase, is that aw richt? Mine is: many a mickle maks a muckle. Muckle is a great word. It's like, you could just put it in front of anything and it works. 

Onythin else ye would like tae add tae wrap up?

I don't think so, I think everything's in the show! The play script is available. We’d love to bring the show back again and you know, I'm just really interested in the debate, actually. I'm just really interested in putting it out there. I’m not an expert, I’m not a historian. I've absolutely taken pure artistic license with this for my own ends, as James Macpherson did as well. So you know, it's an artistic version of events and I hoped that it would spark a bit of a debate, which I think it has, and I think that's a good thing. 

Through the Shortbread Tin is playing at Urquhart Castle, Inverness, on the 17-19th September 2026. Get yir tickets here: https://www.nationaltheatrescotland.com/events/through-the-shortbread-tin 

This interview wis recordit online in September 2026, an hae bin edited fir length an clarity.